More Alive = Better Stats

User avatar
Layenem
Founder
Founder
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 11:59 am

Re: More Alive = Better Stats

Postby Layenem » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:38 pm

Allow me to take a moment to quote games that I've "raided" in since I started playing MMOs. NOTE that these do not mean they are worthy of the mention, but this should clear up your assumed list that because I mention the best raiding known to date it is the only raiding I know to date:

EQ1
EQ2
SWTOR
Rift (the best of the more recent games)
FFXIV:ARR


NOT raid raids that I've done:

ESO (lol... seriously this isn't even raiding)
TERA (their little "raid testing" Nexus thing... laughable)


Known raiding I've never done:

WoW (didn't like it enough to get to raiding, enjoyed watching the older raids back in the day)
Wildstar (didn't like it enough to get to raiding, watched a few videos, wasn't remotely interested)


NOW have I missed naming something? I feel like I did but I believe this accurately represents the amount of raid pounding I've been involved in. I've touched a LOT of raids (and non raids) and I've seen the over simplicity that developers do to them. If YOU can't tell on paper that a concept has the right core fundamentals to have the potential to be a great raiding system then that's on you. That's like saying that you can't tell from a concept that a game is going to be bad... OKAY... Enjoy that naive logic.


Here are the core fundamentals I'm looking for when I read about a raid system:

How many roles are there for the players to perform? (This is the class system, BEFORE raiding)
How many classes are there? (This is a class system, BEFORE raiding)
Are the roles being used throughout the raid fights?
Are there mechanics to the raid or just "phases" based on the bosses HP where the boss adds new attacks?
Is there a way for players to screw up and still, through some grace of luck and skill, have a chance to win?
Is the written text of the fight longer than a paragraph and does it detail each event/mechanic?


Does this guarantee success? HELL NO! Will not having this stuff guarantee failed raids? So far! As someone who studies the trends of companies and what makes them tick I think I can accurately state that if something worked 10 years ago, and the 5 years prior, and continued to thrive even though they were "outdated" up to this point (sans WoW who changed their raiding system) but all other "evolutions" of those systems have failed horribly then the question isn't so much "What went wrong?" but instead "What did the other ones do that was right?" This is a far more analytical question then it seems like and takes someone with an unbiased eye to investigate the actual features of a fight. Typical people simply see the event in its entirety but couldn't break it down for you... I'm not "typical people"...

I mean... ultimately what you're saying is that one can't determine that a movie is going to be any good by reading the script. All that means is one doesn't know how to read a script, which isn't a bad thing, but it doesn't change the reality of existence to fit that "because one can't read x then no one can determine if y will be successful"... That is a fallacy. A generalization AND a fallacy, actually. To pair someones limits based on the limits of another? We might as well just assume that no one can write code for logarithms because I can't. It's not my strength. I'm humble enough to admit that I cannot do everything.

While I respect your zeal for Wildstar, I really do! I don't think I've heard anyone say anything good about that game, ever... and I just have a hard time imagining that Wildstar was THAT bad. (Though I have no personal way of knowing.) I will disagree with your idea that because I haven't personally experienced something that the experience of other people should be completely disregarded. If I told you war was hell would you feel compelled to believe a war dog Marine or would you feel you had to go experience it yourself? (I don't know your history, I mean that in the rhetorical sense, of course.)

A lot of people loved WoW. I didn't. Therefore, by your statement, I cannot say that WoW was a good game. However, though the reason I feel it was good may not be what some would state, I would absolutely feel comfortable stating that WoW was a good game. Was it the best MMORPG out there? THAT ANSWER is based on what aspect we're talking about. Difficulty wise? No. Even the developers of WoW told everyone it had nothing on EQ1 (and since half of them created EQ1 I'd call that a fair assessment). Story? No. SWTOR had one hell of a story! WoW managed to take their story from Warhammer (they never denied this) and still when asked about plot holes stated "magic" as an answer to it... (don't believe me? Google it... live at a conference...) What WoW definitely had, something I recognize through my limited experience with the game, is a massive community that allowed millions of players to jump in and become a part of... something that is very important in an MMORPG. They absolutely succeeded here! Without question. The. Best.

I hope this clears up my "limited experience" with raiding in several games. Also, while you may not agree with what people have the right to have an opinion on and do not, it is fair to say that no one has the right to tell others what they can have an opinion on. Wildstar failed. I don't truly know why. I haven't cared enough to investigate. Yet they failed. My immediate assumption is because their hardcore approach was too much (it really did turn into a gimmick, one I enjoyed pre launch actually) for the audience (everyone) that they were pitching towards.
Co-Founder and CEO

#ChallengeIsEverything

"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." ~ Elbert Hubbard
User avatar
Neosolidus
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:28 am

Re: More Alive = Better Stats

Postby Neosolidus » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:50 pm

You do have a point there, however not everyone is capable(to be honest most people are not) to read a document and properly envision the content to accurately judge it.

Just like reading an after action dossier......not the same as being in there if you catch my drift.

Anyways back on topic.

Here is a thought about the whole more of something = improved stats.

How bout tying the amount of DPS that you do directly to the amount of HP that you have.
At full HP you do 100% of you dmg(1 = 1) and then as you lose HP you lose "power" directly proportional to the hp value
This gives DPS characters a very good incentive to avoid taking unnecessary dmg(get out of the fucking red.....grrrr) while also adding a reason for healers to be on the ball .
Is not that I try to be mean, I just don't care to "baby" people's feelings
User avatar
Layenem
Founder
Founder
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 11:59 am

Re: More Alive = Better Stats

Postby Layenem » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:19 pm

Agreed.

On to the DPS idea there I personally like it as it puts far more weight on the effectiveness of the DPS to not just do their job but avoid the damage as well. There are many factors to consider, as always... many questions to go through to know if it is worth the risks!

I'll be making sure Wykkyd sees this and we'll discuss this within our core design team and absolutely talk it over.
Co-Founder and CEO

#ChallengeIsEverything

"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." ~ Elbert Hubbard
User avatar
Layenem
Founder
Founder
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 11:59 am

Re: More Alive = Better Stats

Postby Layenem » Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:28 pm

I'm going to follow this up, because I didn't fully understand the system and now do lol (we don't magically know ALL aspects of the game at every moment, that's nearly impossible at this stage).

Players, as a whole, will lose effectiveness in their roles for eating damage. So that's a thing.
Co-Founder and CEO

#ChallengeIsEverything

"To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing." ~ Elbert Hubbard

Return to “Healers”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest